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Carbohydrate timing/ optimum protocol for a.m. fasted training

Continuing the discussion from Macros and bodybuilding:

I am a person, due to work schedule and other circumstances, who always trains first thing in morning (6am) immediately upon waking up. I use a preworkout powder (redcon total war), pump formula (redcon bignoise), and an intra workout carbohydrate drink (redcon clusterbomb). I usually train for 1hr 30 mins (that includes weight session and 20-30mins cardio of my choice).

My question is, should i prioritize my carbohydrate intake later in the evenings so im fueled up for the following morning to train? One scoop of my intraworkout drink is about 25g clusterdextrin, its enough to get me through most tough workouts with good energy, however im always interested about the timing of the rest of my carbohydrate intake and what the optimum protocol would be. im a mesomorph and can handle carbohydrates fairly well.

if additional information needs to be provided, just ask. This all stems from an excellent thread back in 2018 that i found on here. i have attached link at top

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I have always liked getting as much of my carbs in before or around meal 4 out of 6 my last 2 meals are primarily protein. I have done things like this just because I believe that burning the carbs throughout the day will get you the amount you need but I wouldn’t want to eat heavy carbs before bed but one of the best looking guys here @kad1 suggested just the other day to eat carbs before bed to help you sleep.
I though have always tried to get carbs in early but I do also workout in the afternoon usually after my 4th meal

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Afternoon boss. Yes, I have found that carbs at night help me sleep and there is science to back that up. I had eaten that way for years as a bodybuilder but got away for awhile when I did strict paleo for quite a while. When I competed my meal times were 7,10,1,4,7,10 am- pm I never varied. 6 eggs with 1/2 cup oatmeal for breakfast then 8oz chicken 1 cup rice and veggie for the rest of my meals even my 10 pm. I’d throw steak in also a few times per week. I’m happy to get into paleo vs traditional diet vs intermittent fasting if anyone likes. Obviously for mass traditional is better than the others. I had done them for some health reasons and honestly eating paleo I looked my best. Could almost walk on stage at any given time

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What was your experience with intermittent fasting? I practiced it for awhile, i believe about 7 months, and found it great for staying lean while on it. I believe it was simply because i had to get all of my meals in, within a limited time block, and it resulted in less overall “scavenging” throughout the day. I also noticed a great increase in mental clarity and focus when i was in the fasting portion of the day. I did enjoy it, but found it difficult to ADD size due to missing some meals due to the time frame. i was fasting for 16hrs, eating period was an 8hr time block.

For size, i also prefer traditional diet like yourself.

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Sorry I missed your first post so let me start there. I would say yes! Have that normal sized carb meal an hour or so before bed certainly won’t hurt the am workout. Generally because you are training so early you should not have a problem with glycogen depletion during that session and, any easily digestible carb powder would certainly help.
For the intermittent fasting, yes you will be leaner and have more mental clarity and also yes, hard to put on size. Theoretically you can eat enough during your eating window to gain size but it is tough to eat that much in 7-8hrs. The nice thing is it gives your body a rest from digestion and all that good stuff and allows to focus on healing and regaining homeostasis. It takes energy for our bodies to digest as like an other activity and also cause the body some stress depending on what you are eating and food sensitivity. So that 17-18hr break does a lot of good.

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I prefer paleo or extremely high protein that’s how I design my diet you will have fats and carbs but you can use alot less and still grow

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Biologically, does Paleo somewhat fall in line with Keto? Meaning will your body eventually switch from carbohydrate/glycogen as the fuel source to fat/ketones, as it would in a ketogenic diet? If so, you would basically be using fat as the primary energy source to fuel your body. @Kad1 is my logic correct here? I saw that you mentioned how lean you were during Paleo phase.

Or does Paleo allow for the use of carbohydrates? Im looking into it now, looks like no grains allowed. but what about potatoes and such.

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