Drop calories or full keto - no longer on DNP

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Interested in opinions. While on a cut I dropped to 2k calories a day. Extremely clean eating. A little change after 2 weeks but nothing drastic. I then dropped to 1k cals a day. Few days in. Noticeable drop in weight fast. Obviously I’m cutting but also as anyone knows even on cycle I’m losing a little muscle but not noticeable yet.

Bodybuilder A- thinks I need to increase food intake and hit cardio more.

Bodybuilder B- thinks I need to drop all carbs and just go full keto and eat until I’m not hungry.

Trainer (Nationally recognized and cut as fuck all the time)- thinks I should keep with the drop in cals on mixed foods and increase cardio.

At this point I’m wondering which is the best solution considering the goals. Also considering switching up the protocols every couple weeks as well.

All people practice what they preach and really good condition. So not just spewing shit out their ass. A is the best overall condition (size and cut). B is the largest (most muscle but never shredded-still maintains abs). Trainer good size and lives pretty much shredded year around.

Interested in ideas and considering keeping a log on this as well.

Standard diet 2k
240 grams oats. 2 full eggs, 6 egg whites, flax seeds.
240 grams chicken breasts and bag of green beans.
240 grams chicken breasts 430 grams cabbage.
A couple tablespoons of peanut butter for snack during day.
BCAA shakes during and after work out.

1k diet is same as above but half the portions. (Double snack for energy before workout)

I’m on mobile so will probably format better later.

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Good question really not sure what the best solution is but maybe it depends on your biochemistry and ymmv for each option. Never used DNP so dunno about that and keto was a mixed bag for me - got lean but lost so much strength even when pretty much living on protein only

Your diet is super f’ing clean! I don’t think I could adhere to it for more than a week but then again maybe that’s why I am a bit of a fatty bobaatty (relatively speaking).

I’ll throw in a couple more things into the mix

  • will the cardio always be done in a fasted state? Also will thbe cardio be slow and steady and long duration or high intensity interval based?

  • Also have you ever tried Martin Berkhans leangains approach to intermittent fasting? Could give you more bang for your buck as far as the effort to create a caloric deficiency

  • are you doing anything special to miaxikize insulin sensitivity during refeeds / cheat days? Apple cider vinegar/ala//metformin etc.

  • any tools you’re using to deal with the mental aspect of it, tricking your mind into thinking you’re hitting the satiety point? (E.g. Using nicotine or adderall to activate POMC neurons more effectively which will literally make your brain hit the satiety point faster/more efficiently and consequently reduce the natural tendency of the body to resist additional fat loss?

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Thanks. Im maintaining my strength right now at least. So first cardio of the day is fasted. Second is right before bed. Im considering adding a third mid way thru the day but not everyday. maybe 3 days a week.

I did IF a couple years back and didnt do much for me. I felt like shit tbh. hungry part of day and bloated the rest. And no increased loss whatsoever.

Right now Im limiting my cheat meals to once every 2 weeks and thats a pretty cheat meal but not too bad. Im not adding anything else in really. My supplements are limited and acv makes me throw up or start having heartburn.

If I could get adderall here I would. Unfortunately its too controlled to get ahold of here. I used to take it but cant access it now. I hate nicotine.

Im thinking cycling the diet to keto for a week and seeing what happens. The change in diets and switching everything is working at least. I just wish the DNP still had the same response as it used to for me. Then I wouldnt need to diet much.

Brother you should jump on the carb cycling wagon. It really works with cutting and helping maintain your muscle mass.1 heavy carb day 2 medium 3 light and 1 no carbs. I have read alot about this diet its not for me I couldn’t stick with a day with no carbs. If you can do it though guys all over swear by it working. I will also say primo always helps with the cut and low carbs and cals. You already know that though.
I would like to hear if you or anyone else has ever tried carb cycling.
@t-bill
@TrenGod
@JethroBodine

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Hmm I’ll look into carb cycling more then and give it a try possibly. I’ve heard of it obviously but never tried it or looked too much into it.

I absolutely love scenarios like this! Well, @TrenGod would it be possible to gather more info about you? Similar to @t-bill alluded to regarding his comments on biochemistry and that ymmv, we need to know your TDEE so that we could configure your macros. It has been 3 weeks since this post, are you still cutting?

Thats all I do for ‘diet’ is carb cycle. I’ve done it so long that I adjust according to how I look or if I feel like I am getting too fluffy. I also adjust based on goals … am I getting ready to start a heavy cycle or am I trying to strip fat off. When you do it long enough it becomes second nature

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Does it serve to maximize muscle mass?

This.

The science behind carbs is to act as an energy spike, whether simple of complex carbs (regarding insulin). Adjusting the amount of energy when we need it is monumentally important because if overlooked, the stored energy will compound itself to fat. Yet, regulating one’s carb intake is the key to manipulating its function depending on one’s goal: from running a marathon to losing weight. Totally proud to read this!

I’m sorry, I’m at a loss. Does “what” serve to maximize muscle mass?

I spend a large portion of the year ketone adapted. It is not an easy diet to get involved with but once you are in full ketosis and remain in ketosis the energy level from utilizing fatty acids is without equal. I have also developed a pretty firm carb cycling diet based on a three day interval that has always worked well for me. The problem with diets is that every individual is unique and there are so many individual variables that must go into the diet planning. The first and foremost thing that most people need to understand is because of the western diet most individuals are insulin resistant and until you overcome that resistance no diet will work to its full potential. In the end if I was going to offer diet advice I would have to say avoid all processed food & added sugars. Focus on high quality whole foods. If you can shoot it, catch it or grow it eat it!!! If anyone does that I guarantee they will see positive results physically and hormonally. Shop in the outside isles of the grocery story and avoid the center isles as much as possible. If it is convenient or requires to be heated in the microwave throw it out instead of shitting it out.

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And mentally, and emotionally. Whole foods affects the whole system. Our bodies are made and genetically accustomed to natty foods. Nothing is more powerful, or anabolic than food and well tuned endocrine system (exocrine and paracrine included). If a body is insulin resistant, do diet will work in the long term, and it takes time and consistency to reverse the damage we have caused to ourselves for the sake of convenience.

t-bill if you were living on mostly protein than you were NOT in ketosis. Your were in gluconeogenesis. Not a good thing when you want to maintain strength and energy. Your body was converting the protein into glucose for energy. It was in survival mode. Ketosis requires a high fat, moderate protein, very low carb macro breakdown. It is a tough diet to do right for sure. The few weeks that it takes to get into ketosis can be murder for the first timer. Ketosis is far superior than anything else I have personally used for a clean bulk or cutting. The goal of ketosis is to use our almost unlimited supply of fatty acids as energy and requires the consumption of a large amount of outside fatty acids.

Excellent point. So you’ve been able to bulk on a ketogenic diet? I’ve always wondered how that works given the role insulin plays in putting on mass (maybe it’s overemphasized?)

late to the party but this is some great advice !!

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